Some of this is still vague -- I don't think we've heard all the details yet (or maybe I'm just hoping we haven't). The "50% split" happens "after costs to operate". Now, in government-speak, that usually means the routine daily type of things -- snowploughing, pothole fixing, painting, insurance, blah, blah, blah. But there COULD be a clause in here that's akin to "loan payment" or some such, that does give Canada a significant portion towards the capital cost, before they do the 50/50 bit on "whatever is left over."
And I'm seeing contradictions as to who controls that "economic development fund".
Put to your main contention: YES, even if this is a mafia-style shakedown, we do need the bridge open for all of the trade matters you point out.
And I agree with your basic question: What happens when ones "deal" gets renegotiated (at gunpoint, of sorts) by the other side?
My answer: This gets noted. And Canadians have long memories (well, most of the time). So if there ever is some other joint capital project, then we will be VERY wary about doing some similar arrangement. Or better yet, have something in our back pocket for "leverage" that would prevent this (if we had a monopoly on avocados, we would have the Americans grovelling at our feet! Hmm, once our herds are bigger, maybe we can dangle beef at them . . . .)
🇨🇦💙 Not quite. Carney’s still a banker. The net profits (not the gross profits) are split after all expenses have been deducted. Payroll, security and safety, utilities and toll $ systems, structural engineering specialists, IT specialists, legal fees, Insurance, administration, road maintenance, improvements, infrastructure costs among many others line items. The Gordie Howe Bridge can now hire the top talent for all its needs as payroll and contract costs will be deducted.
🇨🇦💙 Carney wears many hats. Steering Canada through the US asset- backed mortgage crisis that almost bankrupted Iceland and steering Britain through Brexit, Carney understands pattern recognition and has perfected crisis-tested nerve under Trump’s ambiguity. Both central bank jobs were excellent teachers.
“The loan/financing repayment isn’t part of the split at all — it’s deducted before the profit-split calculation even starts. Net profit = toll revenue − Operating and maintenance costs − outstanding capital/financing costs.” (Globe and Mail)
The WDBA (Windsor Detroit Bridge Association) has confirmed Canada and the US will split NET toll revenue (after operating expenses) over a 15-year period. The US will direct its share into a “regional economic development fund”
Roxy, you're thinking similar to me in the post I just did (while you were posting yours). I'm not quite sure if/how we can wrangle a "bridge loan payment to Canada" into the "costs" (Before the 50/50 split), but I would suspect they might have arranged something.
But to your "Carney is a banker" (more importantly, a central banker, thinking of things at macroeconomic level of countries) and to Fred's assertion "there's all kinds of economic reasons why the bridge needs to open, even if it opens under shitty (my word) terms for Canada", I DO suspect he's blessed this because the overall benefit is a WIN for us at this time - even if it's not a direct win with the bridge itself in isolation.
Looking forward to Carney/LeBlanc/Joly commenting further, with more official details.
We need more official detail (all of this so far is just leaked stuff). We might have "caved" on the bridge, but obtained bigger economic winfall by getting it opened. As Fred pointed out, every day it remained closed, economic hardship ensued.
The Orange One knows this kind of stuff, and that while USA also needs this bridge opened, he probably calculated that Canada needs it more (at least right now). So he leveraged.
But if so, we will remember -- and maybe we reduce our F35 orders by a few squadrons. <evil grin>
Admittedly I was someone who had to take a breath and think about this one logically for a second because as much as I didn’t like that we had to open the bridge under these terms, it still was necessary that it open regardless of personal feelings
The one thing I hope is that there’s room to renegotiate more directly with Michigan itself when this is all said and done because to me Trump getting more directly involved just turned this whole thing into a farce
The usa has lost the trust of potential investors. They cannot be trusted to honour their signed agreements. Countries all over the world have seen that trump is a gangster and his fascist regime are unreliable, corrupt and not to be trusted in any agreement. Canada got screwed with this bridge debacle but we Canadians won’t forget what trump and his regime have done. Their empire is falling, the crooks will be held accountable, trump will hang or get assasinated by disgruntled citizens,the sooner the better.
Need a lot more information to determine if this was a good deal for Canada. I suspect that the toll schedule will be significantly higher than was initially planned. The tolls on the Ambassador bridge were almost twice what was proposed by the new Gordie Howe bridge. The US veto over toll amounts and a requirement that the toll be reasonable in relation to the competitive market meaning the Ambassador bridge protects Maroun from losing on both volume and price. So now that the toll rate is higher becsuse Trump magic he gets his share of the increase. I firmly believe this flawed logic is behind this deal. Let us know when the actual details of the deal are available.
Some of this is still vague -- I don't think we've heard all the details yet (or maybe I'm just hoping we haven't). The "50% split" happens "after costs to operate". Now, in government-speak, that usually means the routine daily type of things -- snowploughing, pothole fixing, painting, insurance, blah, blah, blah. But there COULD be a clause in here that's akin to "loan payment" or some such, that does give Canada a significant portion towards the capital cost, before they do the 50/50 bit on "whatever is left over."
And I'm seeing contradictions as to who controls that "economic development fund".
Put to your main contention: YES, even if this is a mafia-style shakedown, we do need the bridge open for all of the trade matters you point out.
And I agree with your basic question: What happens when ones "deal" gets renegotiated (at gunpoint, of sorts) by the other side?
My answer: This gets noted. And Canadians have long memories (well, most of the time). So if there ever is some other joint capital project, then we will be VERY wary about doing some similar arrangement. Or better yet, have something in our back pocket for "leverage" that would prevent this (if we had a monopoly on avocados, we would have the Americans grovelling at our feet! Hmm, once our herds are bigger, maybe we can dangle beef at them . . . .)
🇨🇦💙 Not quite. Carney’s still a banker. The net profits (not the gross profits) are split after all expenses have been deducted. Payroll, security and safety, utilities and toll $ systems, structural engineering specialists, IT specialists, legal fees, Insurance, administration, road maintenance, improvements, infrastructure costs among many others line items. The Gordie Howe Bridge can now hire the top talent for all its needs as payroll and contract costs will be deducted.
🇨🇦💙 Carney wears many hats. Steering Canada through the US asset- backed mortgage crisis that almost bankrupted Iceland and steering Britain through Brexit, Carney understands pattern recognition and has perfected crisis-tested nerve under Trump’s ambiguity. Both central bank jobs were excellent teachers.
“The loan/financing repayment isn’t part of the split at all — it’s deducted before the profit-split calculation even starts. Net profit = toll revenue − Operating and maintenance costs − outstanding capital/financing costs.” (Globe and Mail)
The WDBA (Windsor Detroit Bridge Association) has confirmed Canada and the US will split NET toll revenue (after operating expenses) over a 15-year period. The US will direct its share into a “regional economic development fund”
Roxy, you're thinking similar to me in the post I just did (while you were posting yours). I'm not quite sure if/how we can wrangle a "bridge loan payment to Canada" into the "costs" (Before the 50/50 split), but I would suspect they might have arranged something.
But to your "Carney is a banker" (more importantly, a central banker, thinking of things at macroeconomic level of countries) and to Fred's assertion "there's all kinds of economic reasons why the bridge needs to open, even if it opens under shitty (my word) terms for Canada", I DO suspect he's blessed this because the overall benefit is a WIN for us at this time - even if it's not a direct win with the bridge itself in isolation.
Looking forward to Carney/LeBlanc/Joly commenting further, with more official details.
Both sides must have agreed to a renegotiate the agreement. So we caved again.
We need more official detail (all of this so far is just leaked stuff). We might have "caved" on the bridge, but obtained bigger economic winfall by getting it opened. As Fred pointed out, every day it remained closed, economic hardship ensued.
The Orange One knows this kind of stuff, and that while USA also needs this bridge opened, he probably calculated that Canada needs it more (at least right now). So he leveraged.
But if so, we will remember -- and maybe we reduce our F35 orders by a few squadrons. <evil grin>
I think our PM should sell $7B of US debt to recoup our costs. That'll work.
Admittedly I was someone who had to take a breath and think about this one logically for a second because as much as I didn’t like that we had to open the bridge under these terms, it still was necessary that it open regardless of personal feelings
The one thing I hope is that there’s room to renegotiate more directly with Michigan itself when this is all said and done because to me Trump getting more directly involved just turned this whole thing into a farce
The usa has lost the trust of potential investors. They cannot be trusted to honour their signed agreements. Countries all over the world have seen that trump is a gangster and his fascist regime are unreliable, corrupt and not to be trusted in any agreement. Canada got screwed with this bridge debacle but we Canadians won’t forget what trump and his regime have done. Their empire is falling, the crooks will be held accountable, trump will hang or get assasinated by disgruntled citizens,the sooner the better.
Need a lot more information to determine if this was a good deal for Canada. I suspect that the toll schedule will be significantly higher than was initially planned. The tolls on the Ambassador bridge were almost twice what was proposed by the new Gordie Howe bridge. The US veto over toll amounts and a requirement that the toll be reasonable in relation to the competitive market meaning the Ambassador bridge protects Maroun from losing on both volume and price. So now that the toll rate is higher becsuse Trump magic he gets his share of the increase. I firmly believe this flawed logic is behind this deal. Let us know when the actual details of the deal are available.