The entire US foundation of stability, trustworthiness, and predictability finally unravelled with the reelection of '47'. Canada has, by consequence, learned that we cannot as a nation, spool our nation's future upon a core that is actively collapsing inward. Trade, by necessity will continue between Canada and the USA, but it should never and will never revert to the 'old ways'.
Pete, that’s exactly the distinction I think matters.
Canada and the U.S. will continue doing enormous amounts of business.
Geography alone practically guarantees it.
But the old assumption was bigger than trade.
We built supply chains, energy systems and investment decisions around the belief that the United States was a predictable partner and that agreements meant something beyond the next election.
Once that assumption disappears, going back to the “old ways” isn’t prudence.
It’s forgetting what we just learned.
Keep the American customer. Build a hell of a lot more customers.
Let’s agree that Trump probably doesn’t recall he signed an agreement already (CUSMA). Given that probable lapse in memory, I am thrilled Canada did not fold. This type of post-contract next phase negotiation is a long standing Trump play. Check with former contractor firms he dealt with during Trump tower construction. It was common knowledge in the 1990s.
I have no faith or trust in the USA. Trump can at any time decide that there is something he doesn’t like and ignore any agreements signed with anyone. So the no agreement is better than a bad one is kind of a moot point. The deadlines are artificial. They can be moved or removed at any time on the presidents whim. The use is totally, untrustworthy and unreliable. And I personally don’t really see any point in spending time and money on negotiating anything with the USA when one person can unilaterally change it, disregard it at any time.
Yeah, you are right about negotiating because of the current trade between Canada and the us. Caught me in a moment of real anger at the USA attitude. There is really nothing nice about the USA negotiators. They still think they can bully Canada
The conservative mindset dictates that change is a threat. This gives rise to beliefs such as "better the devil that you know" and "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". In the context of this article this means that accepting any deal is better than not having a deal. Once a deal is in place, they think, they can find ways to work with it or around it. If no deal is in place this is very upsetting and produces abnormal anxiety. Thus we have Pierre expressing wishful thinking (get a deal with no tariffs) as an objective. It's not going to happen. What will happen is that Aug 19 will come and go, some agreements will be made or not made, and the universe will continue to unfold as it should. Life is dynamic, not static. Learning to adapt to change will ease the anxiety caused by fluctuations in our reality.
Fred, at this point I'm convinced that reaching an equitable deal with Trump will never be in the cards. He had no interest in a FAIR DEAL. I'm all for letting the talks lapse, let him do whatever he has in mind with his illegal tariffs, put on reciprocal tariffs and initiate export levies on the items the US needs from us. Once the USA has a sane person in charge, I'm certain a fair and equitable deal can be made.
and I’m increasingly convinced that Canada has to plan its future on the assumption that no agreement with this administration removes the uncertainty.
Where I differ slightly is that I wouldn't walk away from the table.
There's simply too much Canadian business and too many Canadian jobs tied to that relationship.
Keep talking. Keep negotiating. Take a good deal if one genuinely appears.
But negotiate while building the alternative.
More customers. More ports. More east-west infrastructure. More access to Europe and Asia.
And yes, Canada should keep every legitimate economic response available rather than announcing beforehand which cards we promise never to play.
The goal shouldn't be punishing Americans or waiting for a different president.
The goal should be making sure that whoever occupies the White House next can never again have this much leverage over Canada.
So much of great relevance and significance said here, Fred. First, "Sometimes the most powerful word in a negotiation is no… especially when you’re busy building enough alternatives to mean it."
That is exactly right. Trump does not respect "No", as hundreds of women already have and apparently can attest to, and perhaps it's up to little old Canada to stand up for decency.
You also said, "Canada needs to stop needing America to buy." So true. We have been the dependent in a co-dependent relationship for far too many years. There is only one solution and that is to break the attachment chains. ❤️🇨🇦
There are very serious and well-reported concerns about conditions aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln after its extraordinarily long deployment, including reports involving sailors going overboard and mental-health concerns.
But the separate story claiming seven sailors died in a fight aboard the carrier is not verified.
That claim appears to have originated in Iranian reporting, and U.S. Central Command has specifically denied that anyone died aboard the ship.
So for now I'm putting that one in my “interesting, but don't repeat it as fact” pile.
Thanks for flagging it.
This is exactly the sort of thing I like checking before any of us accidentally help a questionable story travel farther than the facts do. 👍
I haven't reasonably tried to vet that story, but it is extremely unnerving to discover the possibility that sailors aboard that vessel 'may', and I stressed the word may, are reacting to conditions that we simply do not know. The secrecy and the truth are layers deep. We owe it to the sellers and to ourselves to find out what that truth is, and to reserve any judgment. We simply do not have the right.
“Treating the deadline as the objective” - perfect phrase for how our media is going after this frenzy.. now is the most important time to keep calm (and Carney on). I genuinely feel for the Canadians who are struggling with costs now- am grateful to be a senior with savings but fully believe we need to push thru this pain so our grandkids have a bright future in 🇨🇦 if only the PC’s would mute the rage baiting and put faith and support into our Leader and his brilliant team, after all, much as already been accomplished!
There is no value to an agreement with a dishonourable government which is exactly what the US is at this point. It is a contract as enduring as an etch-a-sketch drawing.
Canada making a deal against our interests would only encourage MAGA propagandists and corporate boot-lickers to claim victory in the trade war that they started.
US is pushing this as midterms are coming. We know any deal signed will be broken within 24 hours. Cusma has been broken consistently by the US. It was a Trump deal he raved about. We should sign nothing … Nov 3 may make a difference …
As always Fred - short, simply put and to the relevant point. I shudder at so many wordy tomes. Never need that with yours. One good point and the pieces around it put there and offered. 🫶🇨🇦
The entire US foundation of stability, trustworthiness, and predictability finally unravelled with the reelection of '47'. Canada has, by consequence, learned that we cannot as a nation, spool our nation's future upon a core that is actively collapsing inward. Trade, by necessity will continue between Canada and the USA, but it should never and will never revert to the 'old ways'.
Pete, that’s exactly the distinction I think matters.
Canada and the U.S. will continue doing enormous amounts of business.
Geography alone practically guarantees it.
But the old assumption was bigger than trade.
We built supply chains, energy systems and investment decisions around the belief that the United States was a predictable partner and that agreements meant something beyond the next election.
Once that assumption disappears, going back to the “old ways” isn’t prudence.
It’s forgetting what we just learned.
Keep the American customer. Build a hell of a lot more customers.
That’s not anti-American.
That’s risk management.
Let’s agree that Trump probably doesn’t recall he signed an agreement already (CUSMA). Given that probable lapse in memory, I am thrilled Canada did not fold. This type of post-contract next phase negotiation is a long standing Trump play. Check with former contractor firms he dealt with during Trump tower construction. It was common knowledge in the 1990s.
Michelle, I won't attempt a diagnosis of Trump's memory. 😁
But your larger point is worth remembering.
Trump's history of negotiating after the work was done and the bill was due isn't some new political theory.
Contractors who worked on his projects described being owed substantial amounts and then facing pressure to accept less than they had billed.
Which makes CUSMA particularly interesting.
Trump negotiated it. Trump signed it. Trump praised it.
Canada would be foolish to assume that signing another piece of paper automatically restores the predictability we once took for granted.
The question isn't whether we can get Trump to sign a deal.
It's what that signature is worth the morning after.
Yup
I have no faith or trust in the USA. Trump can at any time decide that there is something he doesn’t like and ignore any agreements signed with anyone. So the no agreement is better than a bad one is kind of a moot point. The deadlines are artificial. They can be moved or removed at any time on the presidents whim. The use is totally, untrustworthy and unreliable. And I personally don’t really see any point in spending time and money on negotiating anything with the USA when one person can unilaterally change it, disregard it at any time.
Brian, I think you’ve identified the bigger problem... the deadline isn't really the deadline.
Trust is.
I wouldn't go quite as far as saying Canada shouldn't negotiate.
Nearly $3.5 billion in goods and services crossed our border every day in 2025.
We can't simply shrug at a relationship that large.
But Canada would be equally foolish to negotiate as though another signature suddenly makes the uncertainty disappear.
CUSMA is the perfect warning.
It remains in force today, yet here we are negotiating under another tariff threat anyway.
So negotiate?
Absolutely.
Depend on the outcome?
That's where I think Canada has finally learned its lesson.
Every new customer, port, pipeline and trade relationship we build outside the United States gives the next American president...
Trump or anybody else...
a little less power over Canada's choices.
Maybe that's the real Canadian objective now...
Keep negotiating with America while building a Canada that doesn't have to be afraid when America stops negotiating with us.
Yeah, you are right about negotiating because of the current trade between Canada and the us. Caught me in a moment of real anger at the USA attitude. There is really nothing nice about the USA negotiators. They still think they can bully Canada
The conservative mindset dictates that change is a threat. This gives rise to beliefs such as "better the devil that you know" and "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". In the context of this article this means that accepting any deal is better than not having a deal. Once a deal is in place, they think, they can find ways to work with it or around it. If no deal is in place this is very upsetting and produces abnormal anxiety. Thus we have Pierre expressing wishful thinking (get a deal with no tariffs) as an objective. It's not going to happen. What will happen is that Aug 19 will come and go, some agreements will be made or not made, and the universe will continue to unfold as it should. Life is dynamic, not static. Learning to adapt to change will ease the anxiety caused by fluctuations in our reality.
Jim, I think your last point is the one that really lands with me... life is dynamic, not static.
I think we're making a mistake whenever we treat “getting a deal” as the finish line.
Even if Carney came home tomorrow waving an agreement, Canada would still need to diversify.
We'd still need more customers, more trade routes and more ability to withstand whatever comes next from Washington.
And you're right about August 19.
The sun will come up August 20.
Trade will continue. Negotiations will continue. Canada will adapt.
That's actually what I'm finding encouraging about all this.
We're slowly moving from “How do we get the old relationship back?” to...
“How do we build Canada for the relationship we have now?”
Fred, at this point I'm convinced that reaching an equitable deal with Trump will never be in the cards. He had no interest in a FAIR DEAL. I'm all for letting the talks lapse, let him do whatever he has in mind with his illegal tariffs, put on reciprocal tariffs and initiate export levies on the items the US needs from us. Once the USA has a sane person in charge, I'm certain a fair and equitable deal can be made.
Frank, I understand the frustration...
and I’m increasingly convinced that Canada has to plan its future on the assumption that no agreement with this administration removes the uncertainty.
Where I differ slightly is that I wouldn't walk away from the table.
There's simply too much Canadian business and too many Canadian jobs tied to that relationship.
Keep talking. Keep negotiating. Take a good deal if one genuinely appears.
But negotiate while building the alternative.
More customers. More ports. More east-west infrastructure. More access to Europe and Asia.
And yes, Canada should keep every legitimate economic response available rather than announcing beforehand which cards we promise never to play.
The goal shouldn't be punishing Americans or waiting for a different president.
The goal should be making sure that whoever occupies the White House next can never again have this much leverage over Canada.
So much of great relevance and significance said here, Fred. First, "Sometimes the most powerful word in a negotiation is no… especially when you’re busy building enough alternatives to mean it."
That is exactly right. Trump does not respect "No", as hundreds of women already have and apparently can attest to, and perhaps it's up to little old Canada to stand up for decency.
You also said, "Canada needs to stop needing America to buy." So true. We have been the dependent in a co-dependent relationship for far too many years. There is only one solution and that is to break the attachment chains. ❤️🇨🇦
Cath, I think “break the attachment chains” gets right to the heart of it.
I don't want Canada to become anti-American.
I don't even want us to become less successful trading with Americans.
I want us to become less dependent on having that trade relationship behave exactly as we expect it to.
That's the difference.
For decades, geography and convenience made the United States the obvious customer.
We built around that assumption because it worked remarkably well.
Now we've discovered the price of having too few alternatives.
So don't break the relationship.
Break the dependency.
Keep the American customer... and go find a whole bloody world full of others. ❤️
Can you look at what has happened on that aircraft carrier? I have seen an article that says several sailors have died, nothing to prove that !
Penny, I think I found what you're referring to.
There are very serious and well-reported concerns about conditions aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln after its extraordinarily long deployment, including reports involving sailors going overboard and mental-health concerns.
But the separate story claiming seven sailors died in a fight aboard the carrier is not verified.
That claim appears to have originated in Iranian reporting, and U.S. Central Command has specifically denied that anyone died aboard the ship.
So for now I'm putting that one in my “interesting, but don't repeat it as fact” pile.
Thanks for flagging it.
This is exactly the sort of thing I like checking before any of us accidentally help a questionable story travel farther than the facts do. 👍
I haven't reasonably tried to vet that story, but it is extremely unnerving to discover the possibility that sailors aboard that vessel 'may', and I stressed the word may, are reacting to conditions that we simply do not know. The secrecy and the truth are layers deep. We owe it to the sellers and to ourselves to find out what that truth is, and to reserve any judgment. We simply do not have the right.
'sellers' -> sailors. Uggh, autocorrect.
Pete, that's the word that matters here... “may.”
There's enough verified information surrounding that ship to justify asking questions.
There isn't enough verified information to justify turning the unanswered questions into conclusions.
That's a distinction we're losing far too often online.
Something gets reported, repeated a few thousand times, and suddenly “this may have happened” becomes “everybody knows this happened.”
I think Penny did exactly the right thing by bringing it here and saying she couldn't prove it.
Ask. Check. Keep digging.
And until we know, reserve judgment.
That's pretty much what FACTS, NOT FABLES is supposed to mean around here.
And don't worry about sellers, Pete.
Autocorrect has destroyed more perfectly good sentences than I ever have. 😁
I hope we don’t sign we will find other buyers
Lb, I’m with you on the finding other buyers part.
I’d still take a genuinely good deal if Canada can get one.
But I don’t want us signing something simply because a deadline arrives and Washington expects us to blink.
And the encouraging part is that finding other buyers is already happening.
Canada’s non-U.S. exports increased by $33 billion in 2025, and the government’s target is to double non-U.S. exports over the next decade.
Keep the American customer.
Find a whole lot more customers.
That’s how we make the next negotiation very different from this one.
“Treating the deadline as the objective” - perfect phrase for how our media is going after this frenzy.. now is the most important time to keep calm (and Carney on). I genuinely feel for the Canadians who are struggling with costs now- am grateful to be a senior with savings but fully believe we need to push thru this pain so our grandkids have a bright future in 🇨🇦 if only the PC’s would mute the rage baiting and put faith and support into our Leader and his brilliant team, after all, much as already been accomplished!
There is no value to an agreement with a dishonourable government which is exactly what the US is at this point. It is a contract as enduring as an etch-a-sketch drawing.
Canada making a deal against our interests would only encourage MAGA propagandists and corporate boot-lickers to claim victory in the trade war that they started.
US is pushing this as midterms are coming. We know any deal signed will be broken within 24 hours. Cusma has been broken consistently by the US. It was a Trump deal he raved about. We should sign nothing … Nov 3 may make a difference …
Never too up or too down, okay. Breathe. We will be fine. We are transitioning to a more modern economy. In 5 years you won’t believe it.
As always Fred - short, simply put and to the relevant point. I shudder at so many wordy tomes. Never need that with yours. One good point and the pieces around it put there and offered. 🫶🇨🇦
Close southbound trade for a week. Let’s see if Trump is right and doesn’t need Canada.
Who didn’t enjoy this?