Canada is still liked by most Americans. But a remarkable new Gallup poll shows that how Americans see us increasingly depends on which political tribe they’re standing in.
I suspect that at least a bunch of those on the R side of our (US) aisle live in those places most hurt by loss of sales to Canadians (alcohol, travel), so they pile up that plus the costs of the pus sac's tariffs and war and decide it's all because Canadians stopped doing business with them. (That's a pretty easy sell to a lot of them.) I'm sorry our idiot has hurt your reputation here, but I'm hoping we'll restock our legislature with folks who are willing to try to make some changes that will be good for all of us.
If you're running a hotel, restaurant, liquor store or tourism business and Canadians suddenly stop showing up, the easiest explanation to sell you is, “Look what Canada is doing to us.”
The harder question is... **why did Canadians stop coming and buying in the first place?**
That's where cause and effect can get turned upside down.
And please don't apologize for what your government is doing to our reputation of Americans.
One of the things I keep trying to remind Canadians is exactly what this poll showed me...
**Americans aren't one political organism.**
Millions of you want the same sane, mutually beneficial relationship we do.
I hope you restock that legislature too.
We've got a hell of a lot more to gain from being good neighbours than angry ones.
Sorry to hear that, but up to them ultimately. If they want to listen to an overweight orange idiot who, from what the rest of the world can see, has ruined America and its international standing, then go for it.
Sad times, for sure. I think this only goes to show the power of social media and the gullibility if so many that choose to believe it. Repetition eventually leads to belief. Here in Canada I think the polls would show similar but reversed results. Liberals supporting Carney would typically show greater support for diversifying and moving away from US products while Conservatives would be more prepared to cave to Trump’s demands simply because they hate the Liberals. What used to be disagreement has now turned to hatred. Mulroney led us down this path back in the 80’s, John Turner argued against him, Harper further enhanced the relationship and now here we are. As an older man than you, Fred, I feel angered that the USA ever elected Trump. The damage he alone has managed to cause all over this world is unbelievable. From Europe to the Middle East to Asia to South America to within the USA and not forgetting our dear homeland. May he be gone soon, forever, and may his successors work hard to repair all that damage. It will take decades.
David, I think you've put your finger on the part that bothers me most...
**disagreement has been turned into identity, and identity is being turned into hatred.**
We used to be able to say, “I think you're wrong,” without automatically deciding, “Therefore you're my enemy.”
And repetition matters enormously.
Tell people often enough that Canada is ripping them off, immigrants are destroying them, their political opponents are evil, or some particular group is responsible for everything going wrong, and eventually some percentage will absorb it as fact.
I'd be interested in seeing Canadian polling broken down the same way because I suspect we'd find some uncomfortable tribalism on our side of the border too.
We shouldn't pretend we're immune simply because we're Canadian.
That's actually why I keep hammering **FACTS, NOT FABLES.**
I can support Carney and still demand evidence for claims that favour him.
I can oppose Trump or Poilievre and still reject a juicy story attacking them if the facts don't support it.
If we lose that discipline, we're just wearing different jerseys in the same damn game.
And from one old guy to an even older one... I'd very much like our generation to leave these kids a functioning neighbourhood.
Who cares? Americans just want our money, they miss that. SInce after WWII through the decades, every president, politician, war monger general, has seen the value in controlling those ‘nice Canadians’. It was never a true friendship. It is not just Trump. It is worse then Trump, we trusted a relationship that never was. Canada has been betrayed, we should not now mourn something that was never real. Why apologize. Never again. 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
And let's walk away from any deal (extortion) with them. Plus I want all products sold in this country to clearly display country of origin, so we can easily recognize and reject items from the US.
I would hope that that number would grow. Being hated by Maggats, Putin supporters, child molesters, grifters and rapists is a badge of honour (spelled with a "u").
Since the advent of cinema than radio, tv, internet, mass social media, the free world has been propagandized by the most sophisticated media machine in the history of the world , American broadcast media. Since the 1800s the world has been inundated with “America the great” “America the brave”etc. etc. EC.
A significant part of the Trump strategy appears to be to groom the American public to see Canada as an outlier to the best interest of the United States. Canadians should not be surprised nor confused when this grooming succeeds. After all we are talking about a nation that readily acknowledges itself as exceptional and above all rules. It should be a for gone conclusion that if canada does not fully support, American demands American public opinion, will be shifted ,quickly, by the propaganda machine.
American policy self interest is not new, it’s time canada made our self interest, a primary consideration in the discussion too . when we do the American public is not going to like It. The world has changed!!
John, your last point is the one I keep coming back to.
**Canada pursuing Canadian interests will sometimes mean saying no to the United States.**
That shouldn't make us anti-American.
It makes us a country.
For decades the relationship was comfortable enough that Canadians could sometimes forget our interests weren't automatically identical.
Now we're being reminded rather forcefully.
And you're right about something else...
we shouldn't be shocked when political messaging changes public opinion.
That's precisely what these Gallup numbers made me sit up and notice.
When attitudes toward the same neighbour differ so dramatically depending on political affiliation, we're looking at more than ordinary foreign policy disagreement.
But there's a Canadian lesson here too.
We can't build our future around whether American public opinion approves of every decision we make.
Trade with them.
Cooperate with them.
Remain friends with the Americans who want to remain friends with us.
But diversify our markets, strengthen our own economy and make decisions based on **Canadian interests first.**
Having Trump actively lie about Canada daily for 18 months and knowing that his base is in the 35% range, having our popularity among Americans fall from 89% to 80% is a huge f+cking win.
Fair criticism... and I actually like your way of looking at the 80%.
If Canada can take 18 months of political attacks and still have **4 out of 5 Americans viewing us favourably**, that's a pretty damn strong foundation.
Where we differ is that I don't think the movement underneath that number is nonsense.
Republican favourability toward Canada falling from **85% to 62% in one year** caught my attention.
So did independents dropping from **89% to 80%**.
That's not me saying, “Holy shit, Americans hate us!”
They clearly don't.
It's me saying: **look what happened inside the numbers, and let's understand why.**
In fact, you may have just supplied the optimistic companion headline...
**After Everything Trump Has Thrown at Canada, 80% of Americans Still Like Us.**
Republicans still believe the lies and propaganda. It is so discouraging that a big chunk of the American population has zero critical thinking skills.
As a CANADIAN I don’t wish to be under the influence of the UNITED FASCIST STATE. CANADA and ALL COUNTRIES IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE are SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES. There’s no need to be under the influence or control of the FASCIST TRUMP REGIME. As SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES we have our own interests and none should be under control of a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT.
(sigh) Over a year ago, near the very beginning of Trump's official term, some pollster/statistician predicted that this would happen. In the short run, Americans would be bewildered that Canada was some evil nation. But by half-way, opinions would turn, and by 2028, well, maybe we wouldn't be "public enemy #1" per se, but we would be perceived as a hostile state (maybe not quite an enemy), even by democrats.
To Fred's article, it's largely for the constant stated rhetoric -- exploiters, freeloaders, "friends of our enemies", should be part of USA (and why don't Canadians see this logic), they can't manage forest fires and we Americans are paying for it . . . the list goes on (when they start blaming imported Canadian butter tarts for all of their agricultural inspection woes, you know that things are really bad with the rhetoric).
Now, some mitigators will depend upon how we handle ourselves over the next year -- for example, if we DO "turn off the taps", many Americans would see this as very unfriendly, with the usual "but it's Trump! I didn't vote for him! Why are you punishing me with no gas/etc.???" (we hear this with California wineries already -- though many of them DID vote for Trump, if they are in the agricultural belt). And others would see that as an outright act of war (Republicans in particular), and would have no problem with Trump "invading Canada, even just a quick or focused incursion, to turn the taps back on ("it's American oil in Alberta anyway -- OUR companies made the investment to extract it. Ungrateful Canada should be thankful that we are even paying our discounted rate for it!" Note that this is the same argument they made about Venezuela. They could (in theory) do this, then put PP in as acting-PM or some such).
The only thing that would stop such extreme action would be the threat of NATO Article 5, other political actions worldwide that would result, and maybe even an ICC prosecution, as Canada would certainly file such a request!
So, some very careful messaging of our own needs to be countering the Orange One's (and other Republican leaders') messaging.
As to your "Canada Goose / Bald Eagle" fight match-up, this actually HAPPENED! February 23, 2025, Mervyn Sequeira, a wildlife photographer, caught it on camera near Hamilton Ontario. While many reports say the Goose killed the Eagle (or badly wounded it), the 20-minute fight ended up with the Eagle giving up and flying away, with the Goose standing victorious. I remember watching it at the time, and it was incredible -- this also happened right around when the NYT revealed that Trudeau's government actually had proof that Trump Admin was planning an outright invasion of Canada, that "51st state" wasn't just a joke -- essentially, seizing S. Ontario, calculating the AB would follow along on its own, and frankly not carrying too much about anywhere else (other than maybe Quebec) - they figured after the initial capture, the rest of the country would just collapse. I would redirect their attention to the 1980's American cold-war film, Red Dawn (where Russian paratroopers, commanded by a Cuban colonel, invaded Wisconsin (and presumably elsewhere). The local high-school students then lead a guerilla war against the occupiers (Patrick Swayze starred, I believe). Anyway, that's what they would face in Canada, and it wouldn't be pretty. I digress - let's just say in context, the "evidence" (or at least the NYT article) seemed to have disappeared, but seeing the bird-fight did wonders for my morale, at least!
Grant, you sent me down two rabbit holes with this one. 😁
First, I'll be damned... **the goose and eagle fight really happened.**
Mervyn Sequeira photographed it near Burlington on February 23, 2025.
The bald eagle repeatedly attacked the Canada goose for roughly 20 minutes before finally giving up and flying away.
So apparently even Mother Nature has an editorial department. 😂
Your larger point about messaging is the important one for me, though.
Canada can't control what American politicians tell Americans about us.
But we **can** make sure our own case is factual, consistent and heard.
That's particularly important because I don't want Canada answering propaganda with propaganda.
If somebody says we're freeloaders, explain the actual trade relationship.
If somebody says America subsidizes us, show the numbers.
If somebody says Canada has nothing the United States needs, show them energy, critical minerals, potash, uranium and the rest.
**Receipts beat rhetoric.**
One caution on the invasion part of your comment...
I went looking for that reported NYT evidence and haven't been able to substantiate it, so I'm keeping that one firmly in the **“show me the receipt”** pile unless we can find the original reporting.
Yeah, I couldn't believe the timing about the Goose vs Eagle event. Watching the full 20 minute fight was just incredible.
Anyway, I totally agree about verbal responses -- what wins is facts, not cute phrases (or propaganda) -- though those can be used to illustrate things effectively after-the-fact (Carney's Davos remark about "Being on the menu . . . ", for example. But that was AFTER he built the case!).
To the invasion bit: I think the NYT article got pulled for a few reasons. First, it was recounting a Trudeau cabinet meeting (or at least a PMO office meeting with several of the main ministers in attendance), where THEY were worried, based upon "some source" about the possible invasion). Okay, THAT's fine, but just being concerned about something that someone mentioned in of itself isn't really good solid evidence.
The other part -- and this might have been the source, even -- was that there was a credible rumour that there was a draft executive order that was ordering the attack. But in fairness here, governments have a lot of "draft" things covering all kinds of situations -- so that they can pull such material quickly. Canada has (and has had for decades) playbooks as to what to do if the USA invades us. We have playbooks for Russia invading us. There's probably even one about Greenland invading us. And I'm sure we have playbooks for doing incursions in the USA too (as part of attack first, as a defence). So, this doesn't prove anything as intents of any administration. I'm sure they have draft EO's there that cover invading Cuba, Mexico, China, Los Angeles -- just saying!
So given all of this, I think NYT said "this is more about anxiety than confirmed fact" and removed the story. So really, the national anxiety is the real story then (and now?), not the rumoured invasion directive.
Sorry to send you searching -- I meant the remark was really just to set the context for people's concerns (mine, at least) at the moment the Goose/Eagle fight happened. If it had been a confirmed, real-world, verifiable order that was actually being considered, well, we would have been hearing it shouted from everywhere by now.
There's an undercurrent if political necessity filtering out messages fed to citizens of both countries, and when people are bombarded with tales of woe and unpleasantry, villains are sought.
I suspect that at least a bunch of those on the R side of our (US) aisle live in those places most hurt by loss of sales to Canadians (alcohol, travel), so they pile up that plus the costs of the pus sac's tariffs and war and decide it's all because Canadians stopped doing business with them. (That's a pretty easy sell to a lot of them.) I'm sorry our idiot has hurt your reputation here, but I'm hoping we'll restock our legislature with folks who are willing to try to make some changes that will be good for all of us.
djw, I think you may be onto something there.
If you're running a hotel, restaurant, liquor store or tourism business and Canadians suddenly stop showing up, the easiest explanation to sell you is, “Look what Canada is doing to us.”
The harder question is... **why did Canadians stop coming and buying in the first place?**
That's where cause and effect can get turned upside down.
And please don't apologize for what your government is doing to our reputation of Americans.
One of the things I keep trying to remind Canadians is exactly what this poll showed me...
**Americans aren't one political organism.**
Millions of you want the same sane, mutually beneficial relationship we do.
I hope you restock that legislature too.
We've got a hell of a lot more to gain from being good neighbours than angry ones.
Sorry to hear that, but up to them ultimately. If they want to listen to an overweight orange idiot who, from what the rest of the world can see, has ruined America and its international standing, then go for it.
Perhaps I am missing the point, are we supposed to appease the Republicans in the US so they like us?
NO
NO!!! They are idiots and in the minority. You guys stand strong and keep doing what you're doing!
My father always said we dont hate. I said can I use the word abhor lol. I want to be calm and happy in my later years.
Sad times, for sure. I think this only goes to show the power of social media and the gullibility if so many that choose to believe it. Repetition eventually leads to belief. Here in Canada I think the polls would show similar but reversed results. Liberals supporting Carney would typically show greater support for diversifying and moving away from US products while Conservatives would be more prepared to cave to Trump’s demands simply because they hate the Liberals. What used to be disagreement has now turned to hatred. Mulroney led us down this path back in the 80’s, John Turner argued against him, Harper further enhanced the relationship and now here we are. As an older man than you, Fred, I feel angered that the USA ever elected Trump. The damage he alone has managed to cause all over this world is unbelievable. From Europe to the Middle East to Asia to South America to within the USA and not forgetting our dear homeland. May he be gone soon, forever, and may his successors work hard to repair all that damage. It will take decades.
Really well said David! You packed a lot into very few sentences! 🇨🇦
David, I think you've put your finger on the part that bothers me most...
**disagreement has been turned into identity, and identity is being turned into hatred.**
We used to be able to say, “I think you're wrong,” without automatically deciding, “Therefore you're my enemy.”
And repetition matters enormously.
Tell people often enough that Canada is ripping them off, immigrants are destroying them, their political opponents are evil, or some particular group is responsible for everything going wrong, and eventually some percentage will absorb it as fact.
I'd be interested in seeing Canadian polling broken down the same way because I suspect we'd find some uncomfortable tribalism on our side of the border too.
We shouldn't pretend we're immune simply because we're Canadian.
That's actually why I keep hammering **FACTS, NOT FABLES.**
I can support Carney and still demand evidence for claims that favour him.
I can oppose Trump or Poilievre and still reject a juicy story attacking them if the facts don't support it.
If we lose that discipline, we're just wearing different jerseys in the same damn game.
And from one old guy to an even older one... I'd very much like our generation to leave these kids a functioning neighbourhood.
Who cares? Americans just want our money, they miss that. SInce after WWII through the decades, every president, politician, war monger general, has seen the value in controlling those ‘nice Canadians’. It was never a true friendship. It is not just Trump. It is worse then Trump, we trusted a relationship that never was. Canada has been betrayed, we should not now mourn something that was never real. Why apologize. Never again. 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
And let's walk away from any deal (extortion) with them. Plus I want all products sold in this country to clearly display country of origin, so we can easily recognize and reject items from the US.
I would hope that that number would grow. Being hated by Maggats, Putin supporters, child molesters, grifters and rapists is a badge of honour (spelled with a "u").
Elbows Up!
🇬🇱🇨🇦🇬🇱🇨🇦🇬🇱🇨🇦🇬🇱🇨🇦🇬🇱🇨🇦
Since the advent of cinema than radio, tv, internet, mass social media, the free world has been propagandized by the most sophisticated media machine in the history of the world , American broadcast media. Since the 1800s the world has been inundated with “America the great” “America the brave”etc. etc. EC.
A significant part of the Trump strategy appears to be to groom the American public to see Canada as an outlier to the best interest of the United States. Canadians should not be surprised nor confused when this grooming succeeds. After all we are talking about a nation that readily acknowledges itself as exceptional and above all rules. It should be a for gone conclusion that if canada does not fully support, American demands American public opinion, will be shifted ,quickly, by the propaganda machine.
American policy self interest is not new, it’s time canada made our self interest, a primary consideration in the discussion too . when we do the American public is not going to like It. The world has changed!!
John, your last point is the one I keep coming back to.
**Canada pursuing Canadian interests will sometimes mean saying no to the United States.**
That shouldn't make us anti-American.
It makes us a country.
For decades the relationship was comfortable enough that Canadians could sometimes forget our interests weren't automatically identical.
Now we're being reminded rather forcefully.
And you're right about something else...
we shouldn't be shocked when political messaging changes public opinion.
That's precisely what these Gallup numbers made me sit up and notice.
When attitudes toward the same neighbour differ so dramatically depending on political affiliation, we're looking at more than ordinary foreign policy disagreement.
But there's a Canadian lesson here too.
We can't build our future around whether American public opinion approves of every decision we make.
Trade with them.
Cooperate with them.
Remain friends with the Americans who want to remain friends with us.
But diversify our markets, strengthen our own economy and make decisions based on **Canadian interests first.**
The world has changed.
Canada had better change with it.
Yawn
Having Trump actively lie about Canada daily for 18 months and knowing that his base is in the 35% range, having our popularity among Americans fall from 89% to 80% is a huge f+cking win.
That's only 1/4 of his base switching sides.
Quit scaring people with nonsense.
trump’s base falls in the 35 IQ range.
Yes, the numbers are roughly the same. 35% of the population and their IQ averages 35.
Thank you for clarifying that.
I should have done that in my original post.
Fair criticism... and I actually like your way of looking at the 80%.
If Canada can take 18 months of political attacks and still have **4 out of 5 Americans viewing us favourably**, that's a pretty damn strong foundation.
Where we differ is that I don't think the movement underneath that number is nonsense.
Republican favourability toward Canada falling from **85% to 62% in one year** caught my attention.
So did independents dropping from **89% to 80%**.
That's not me saying, “Holy shit, Americans hate us!”
They clearly don't.
It's me saying: **look what happened inside the numbers, and let's understand why.**
In fact, you may have just supplied the optimistic companion headline...
**After Everything Trump Has Thrown at Canada, 80% of Americans Still Like Us.**
I'd read that one too. 😁🇨🇦
Republicans still believe the lies and propaganda. It is so discouraging that a big chunk of the American population has zero critical thinking skills.
Trump has a way of using the repeat button that becomes an “ear-worm” and the Republicans are more susceptible to his words.
Deirdre, **“the repeat button becomes an ear-worm”** ... I love that description.
That's exactly what interests me about this.
You don't necessarily convince someone with one enormous lie.
You repeat the same simple message until it becomes familiar...
Canada is ripping us off.
Canada doesn't pay its way.
Canada needs us.
51st state.
Eventually people aren't necessarily asking, **“Is that true?”**
They're thinking, **“I've heard that before.”**
And familiarity has a nasty habit of masquerading as truth.
That little “ear-worm” of yours may have just crawled into one of my future articles. 😁🇨🇦
You’re more than welcome to use it!
Trump is a master at it - to the extent he believes his own lies!
Love the ear-worm reference Deirdre! 🫶🇨🇦
Thats a good point.
It doesn't matter what Americans think of us. All that we need to know and remember is the Americans voted for Trump twice.
As a CANADIAN I don’t wish to be under the influence of the UNITED FASCIST STATE. CANADA and ALL COUNTRIES IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE are SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES. There’s no need to be under the influence or control of the FASCIST TRUMP REGIME. As SOVEREIGN COUNTRIES we have our own interests and none should be under control of a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT.
Callura, **sovereignty is the word that matters to me too.**
Canada can cooperate with the United States without being controlled by it.
We can trade with them, defend a continent together, share intelligence, build supply chains and remain good neighbours... while still saying:
**Canadian decisions are made by Canadians in Canada's interests.**
That's not anti-American.
That's what being a sovereign country means.
And I think one lesson we're learning the hard way is that economic dependence can become political vulnerability when the relationship changes.
So my answer isn't isolation.
It's **diversification.**
More customers.
More trading partners.
More Canadian capacity.
More choices.
I'd still like the United States to be our closest friend.
I just never again want it to be our **only damn option.**
(sigh) Over a year ago, near the very beginning of Trump's official term, some pollster/statistician predicted that this would happen. In the short run, Americans would be bewildered that Canada was some evil nation. But by half-way, opinions would turn, and by 2028, well, maybe we wouldn't be "public enemy #1" per se, but we would be perceived as a hostile state (maybe not quite an enemy), even by democrats.
To Fred's article, it's largely for the constant stated rhetoric -- exploiters, freeloaders, "friends of our enemies", should be part of USA (and why don't Canadians see this logic), they can't manage forest fires and we Americans are paying for it . . . the list goes on (when they start blaming imported Canadian butter tarts for all of their agricultural inspection woes, you know that things are really bad with the rhetoric).
Now, some mitigators will depend upon how we handle ourselves over the next year -- for example, if we DO "turn off the taps", many Americans would see this as very unfriendly, with the usual "but it's Trump! I didn't vote for him! Why are you punishing me with no gas/etc.???" (we hear this with California wineries already -- though many of them DID vote for Trump, if they are in the agricultural belt). And others would see that as an outright act of war (Republicans in particular), and would have no problem with Trump "invading Canada, even just a quick or focused incursion, to turn the taps back on ("it's American oil in Alberta anyway -- OUR companies made the investment to extract it. Ungrateful Canada should be thankful that we are even paying our discounted rate for it!" Note that this is the same argument they made about Venezuela. They could (in theory) do this, then put PP in as acting-PM or some such).
The only thing that would stop such extreme action would be the threat of NATO Article 5, other political actions worldwide that would result, and maybe even an ICC prosecution, as Canada would certainly file such a request!
So, some very careful messaging of our own needs to be countering the Orange One's (and other Republican leaders') messaging.
As to your "Canada Goose / Bald Eagle" fight match-up, this actually HAPPENED! February 23, 2025, Mervyn Sequeira, a wildlife photographer, caught it on camera near Hamilton Ontario. While many reports say the Goose killed the Eagle (or badly wounded it), the 20-minute fight ended up with the Eagle giving up and flying away, with the Goose standing victorious. I remember watching it at the time, and it was incredible -- this also happened right around when the NYT revealed that Trudeau's government actually had proof that Trump Admin was planning an outright invasion of Canada, that "51st state" wasn't just a joke -- essentially, seizing S. Ontario, calculating the AB would follow along on its own, and frankly not carrying too much about anywhere else (other than maybe Quebec) - they figured after the initial capture, the rest of the country would just collapse. I would redirect their attention to the 1980's American cold-war film, Red Dawn (where Russian paratroopers, commanded by a Cuban colonel, invaded Wisconsin (and presumably elsewhere). The local high-school students then lead a guerilla war against the occupiers (Patrick Swayze starred, I believe). Anyway, that's what they would face in Canada, and it wouldn't be pretty. I digress - let's just say in context, the "evidence" (or at least the NYT article) seemed to have disappeared, but seeing the bird-fight did wonders for my morale, at least!
Grant, you sent me down two rabbit holes with this one. 😁
First, I'll be damned... **the goose and eagle fight really happened.**
Mervyn Sequeira photographed it near Burlington on February 23, 2025.
The bald eagle repeatedly attacked the Canada goose for roughly 20 minutes before finally giving up and flying away.
So apparently even Mother Nature has an editorial department. 😂
Your larger point about messaging is the important one for me, though.
Canada can't control what American politicians tell Americans about us.
But we **can** make sure our own case is factual, consistent and heard.
That's particularly important because I don't want Canada answering propaganda with propaganda.
If somebody says we're freeloaders, explain the actual trade relationship.
If somebody says America subsidizes us, show the numbers.
If somebody says Canada has nothing the United States needs, show them energy, critical minerals, potash, uranium and the rest.
**Receipts beat rhetoric.**
One caution on the invasion part of your comment...
I went looking for that reported NYT evidence and haven't been able to substantiate it, so I'm keeping that one firmly in the **“show me the receipt”** pile unless we can find the original reporting.
You know me by now.
Even when a story supports my argument...
**FACTS, NOT FABLES.**
Yeah, I couldn't believe the timing about the Goose vs Eagle event. Watching the full 20 minute fight was just incredible.
Anyway, I totally agree about verbal responses -- what wins is facts, not cute phrases (or propaganda) -- though those can be used to illustrate things effectively after-the-fact (Carney's Davos remark about "Being on the menu . . . ", for example. But that was AFTER he built the case!).
To the invasion bit: I think the NYT article got pulled for a few reasons. First, it was recounting a Trudeau cabinet meeting (or at least a PMO office meeting with several of the main ministers in attendance), where THEY were worried, based upon "some source" about the possible invasion). Okay, THAT's fine, but just being concerned about something that someone mentioned in of itself isn't really good solid evidence.
The other part -- and this might have been the source, even -- was that there was a credible rumour that there was a draft executive order that was ordering the attack. But in fairness here, governments have a lot of "draft" things covering all kinds of situations -- so that they can pull such material quickly. Canada has (and has had for decades) playbooks as to what to do if the USA invades us. We have playbooks for Russia invading us. There's probably even one about Greenland invading us. And I'm sure we have playbooks for doing incursions in the USA too (as part of attack first, as a defence). So, this doesn't prove anything as intents of any administration. I'm sure they have draft EO's there that cover invading Cuba, Mexico, China, Los Angeles -- just saying!
So given all of this, I think NYT said "this is more about anxiety than confirmed fact" and removed the story. So really, the national anxiety is the real story then (and now?), not the rumoured invasion directive.
Sorry to send you searching -- I meant the remark was really just to set the context for people's concerns (mine, at least) at the moment the Goose/Eagle fight happened. If it had been a confirmed, real-world, verifiable order that was actually being considered, well, we would have been hearing it shouted from everywhere by now.
There's an undercurrent if political necessity filtering out messages fed to citizens of both countries, and when people are bombarded with tales of woe and unpleasantry, villains are sought.
Sought or not, accepting that Canada is a villain is right fucked-up.