Love this, I had a feeling a few months back, with talk of military expansion we would end up getting new subs. Canada is stepping into it's independence and I love it.
So, has Kegsbreath(hic!) figured this out yet? Has Trump had a tantrum about Canada building subs and not giving the US its fair share (you know, like the Gordie Howe Bridge)? Or is my country's administration so stupid that they don't understand that somebody else building Canada's subs means that many Americans not getting those jobs? Or maybe the news just hasn't reached them yet because their mental bandwidth is totally occupied with the Epstein files.
The submarine situation is actually quite different from the bridge issue.
Canada has been evaluating options for replacing its aging submarine fleet for years. That kind of procurement process moves slowly... feasibility studies, partner discussions, industrial capacity, long-term maintenance planning. It’s not something that appears overnight.
If Canada ends up working with non-U.S. partners, it usually comes down to capability, timelines, and domestic industrial benefits... not politics alone.
The bigger pattern, though, is what Annie pointed to: Canadians are becoming less reactive to rhetoric. After repeated threats and noise, people start tuning it out and focusing on practical decisions.
In the end, countries act in their own interests. That’s normal international behaviour.
The submission demands process for submarines has been going on for a while already. Probably close to a year. Maybe Trump will wake up late again, like in front of a completed bridge he had approved. That won't stop him from ranting and threatening. Except Canadians are more tired and fed-up of this behaviour each day more. We are not impressed anymore.
We know the Germans can build quality submarines. They have since before the second world war. South Koreas on the other hand, has shown it is capable also of building high quality work in whatever undertaking it immerses itself in. A hard decision for Canada, but a good one to have.
Right now it seems to be a question of what can be built faster, from my understanding the German Sub is a concept and would be made with a joint partnership between Canada and Germany but the Sub itself wouldn’t be complete and fully operational until 2036 whereas with South Korea they’ve already got the manufacturing capacity fully developed it’s just a matter of setting up shop
Thanks for that important info Kyle. So, we could still use both, Korea first, to give us what we need to start out with & some to follow from Germany to arrive at a later date, to diversify our capital & be inclusive with both entities.
I think you gloss over a few details. For years, military procurement in Canada had industrial benefit clauses, this is not really something new. The F35 for example, involved Canadian companies making parts for the plane big difference is the relative impact of these benefits. Bidders often offered nebulous industrial benefits because one of the subsidiaries of the main contractor would place an order for things unrelated to the contract and had very little strategic value for Canada like the promise to buy paper from a paper mill in Canada to offset the contract.
The new approach is much more strategic, it seeks building new capabilities for the country like the steel beams in SSM, building a battery plant, opening an R&D center in Canada, working with Canadian companies to develop new products and the transfer and license of the technology. I don't think we should build the submarines in Canada as it would take years to build the facilities, transfer the technology, hire and train staff before finally starting the build. At the end of the contract, the facilities and personnel would have to be laid off, there would likely not be another project to continue.
Korea on the other hand has world-class shipbuilding capabilities and a very compelling offer for quick delivery, submarine capacity and industrial benefits. Unfortunately, IMO, while technologically advanced, the German sub will take a long time to be delivered, and technically, it is more of a coastal sub, capable of protecting key choke points in stealth mode and pounce on unsuspecting ships, not a blue sea sub made for long patrols required to patrol our extensive coastline and lacks some of the capabilities the Korean sub has to offer.
Love this, I had a feeling a few months back, with talk of military expansion we would end up getting new subs. Canada is stepping into it's independence and I love it.
You nailed it... this doesn’t feel like saber-rattling.
It feels like growing up.
For decades Canada played the polite middle child.
Borrowed gear.
Outsourced protection.
Assumed the adults (mostly the U.S.) would handle it.
But the world changed.
Supply chains got political.
Alliances got shaky.
And suddenly “trust us” isn’t a strategy.
So yeah… new subs make sense.
Not because we want to flex.
Because we’ve got the longest coastline on Earth and the Arctic opening up fast.
If you don’t patrol your own backyard, someone else will.
To me this whole shift feels less like militarizing…
and more like finally saying...
“Thanks, we’ve got it from here.”
That’s independence.
Quiet. Practical. No drama.
Very Canadian, actually.
So, has Kegsbreath(hic!) figured this out yet? Has Trump had a tantrum about Canada building subs and not giving the US its fair share (you know, like the Gordie Howe Bridge)? Or is my country's administration so stupid that they don't understand that somebody else building Canada's subs means that many Americans not getting those jobs? Or maybe the news just hasn't reached them yet because their mental bandwidth is totally occupied with the Epstein files.
The submarine situation is actually quite different from the bridge issue.
Canada has been evaluating options for replacing its aging submarine fleet for years. That kind of procurement process moves slowly... feasibility studies, partner discussions, industrial capacity, long-term maintenance planning. It’s not something that appears overnight.
If Canada ends up working with non-U.S. partners, it usually comes down to capability, timelines, and domestic industrial benefits... not politics alone.
The bigger pattern, though, is what Annie pointed to: Canadians are becoming less reactive to rhetoric. After repeated threats and noise, people start tuning it out and focusing on practical decisions.
In the end, countries act in their own interests. That’s normal international behaviour.
The submission demands process for submarines has been going on for a while already. Probably close to a year. Maybe Trump will wake up late again, like in front of a completed bridge he had approved. That won't stop him from ranting and threatening. Except Canadians are more tired and fed-up of this behaviour each day more. We are not impressed anymore.
We know the Germans can build quality submarines. They have since before the second world war. South Koreas on the other hand, has shown it is capable also of building high quality work in whatever undertaking it immerses itself in. A hard decision for Canada, but a good one to have.
Why not use both Germany & Korea? Both different projects!
Right now it seems to be a question of what can be built faster, from my understanding the German Sub is a concept and would be made with a joint partnership between Canada and Germany but the Sub itself wouldn’t be complete and fully operational until 2036 whereas with South Korea they’ve already got the manufacturing capacity fully developed it’s just a matter of setting up shop
Thanks for that important info Kyle. So, we could still use both, Korea first, to give us what we need to start out with & some to follow from Germany to arrive at a later date, to diversify our capital & be inclusive with both entities.
I agree, pretty much what I was saying, better business using both :)
I think you gloss over a few details. For years, military procurement in Canada had industrial benefit clauses, this is not really something new. The F35 for example, involved Canadian companies making parts for the plane big difference is the relative impact of these benefits. Bidders often offered nebulous industrial benefits because one of the subsidiaries of the main contractor would place an order for things unrelated to the contract and had very little strategic value for Canada like the promise to buy paper from a paper mill in Canada to offset the contract.
The new approach is much more strategic, it seeks building new capabilities for the country like the steel beams in SSM, building a battery plant, opening an R&D center in Canada, working with Canadian companies to develop new products and the transfer and license of the technology. I don't think we should build the submarines in Canada as it would take years to build the facilities, transfer the technology, hire and train staff before finally starting the build. At the end of the contract, the facilities and personnel would have to be laid off, there would likely not be another project to continue.
Korea on the other hand has world-class shipbuilding capabilities and a very compelling offer for quick delivery, submarine capacity and industrial benefits. Unfortunately, IMO, while technologically advanced, the German sub will take a long time to be delivered, and technically, it is more of a coastal sub, capable of protecting key choke points in stealth mode and pounce on unsuspecting ships, not a blue sea sub made for long patrols required to patrol our extensive coastline and lacks some of the capabilities the Korean sub has to offer.
Another ding to the USA Military Industrial Complex. Thank you 🇨🇦
Great post again