And it'll be no trouble at all running a pipeline through a foreign country to endanger its pristine, priceless widerness with bitumen spill that will last at least a few generations. So more pipekines south to Texas, the Yanks only.too happy to accept even more.oil, at significant discount. It's pretty obvious the Leavers are intent on joining the MAGA America as a useful territory with promises of statehood - until the oil runs out - as a first piece in the absorption of Canada. I guess you xould calk it foreign interference.
Ron, I actually wrote something along your lines and then deleted it, thinking it might be too over-the-top beyond what Fred's posting was going. But I'm very glad you had the courage to write it!
I don't want to say the separatist/legitimate grievance folks are being manipulated here -- but I honestly think they are! Instead of getting resolution to their concerns, they will find themselves dragged into the cesspool of what's happening State-side, with none of the things that AB takes for granted in the Canadian system (maybe they are okay with the trade-offs?? Get used to no universal health care and lots of guns in your schools . . . .)
Anyway to the bigger point: YES, definitely foreign interference -- the separatist leadership actually bragged about the secret meeting(s) in DC in the SCIF room ("Sensitive Compartmentalized Information Facility" - the most top secret of secret meetings. No cellphones or computers allowed in, etc.) and the promise of US$500Billion to help finance an independent AB (or State 51, or whatever).
And Fred also hit the nail on the head in his reply to you -- at best, AB becomes "Texas North" but not really as much of an equal partner.
And again, I'm not sure they will be able to -- all AB land is treaty land relating to federal agreements. This won't be a clean divorce. At best, maybe they get a bottom corner of the province . . . .
Great post Fred! Seems like DS wants to have her cake & eat it here! Go away bwitch! Sureeee we'll give a separatist bunch Canada's pensions, passports, does she want free toilet paper too? Then there's the Native factor... once separated, can't Indigenous peoples say "get off our land, we shared with Canadians, not a bunch of bigots!!!" Housing for some of our Native population will be readily available, for FREE! See ya Danielle, don't let the door kick you in the ayasssssssssss on the way out! That's how I see it today haha
Well said, as always. I certainly hope that Alberta stays and is willing to go through the exercise of working WITH Ottawa to tackle the issues that Albertans want to have tackled in order to convince them that staying is better than leaving.
Heh Heh, yes, like Brexit, if Alberta actually does pass a referendum to secede (would be the second one, I guess, if the first one passes), we would be in for some very thorny/interesting times!
Passports: Ironically the way things stand at the moment, they probably could claim a right to retain it. Presently, Canada has to consider anyone with familial ties going back generations. And I would think everyone in AB would be able to make such a claim easier than many American applicants, at the moment.
But while that would make them dual-citizens, that doesn't automatically mean dual-benefits. For example, I don't believe that they could just cross the border into SK, BC, or NT/NU and get full health benefits (I believe that "Americans" who now can get a Cdn passport are required to pay something into the system for health care (or provide their own insurance/funding). I could be wrong on this, though).
And the pension stuff (CPP) will get thorny. At a broad stroke, I suspect that actuarily, CPPIB would pay out a "present value of contributions of AB workers" at a specific date -- and by pay out, I mean transfer it to an ABPP or whatever. And then that's it -- no future CPP benefit.
But this is all getting into the weeds - it's not a simple "okay we've left - now we want to still be part of confederation somehow, sort-of like UK with EU" (where somethings they have worked out some special arrangements that are much like they never left -- but that's certainly not the case with many things (including immigration, investment, currency, etc.).
And the big one is the whole Indigenous Treaty issue -- as that was arrangements with Dominion of Canada for the vast Rupert's Land area - that was then later subdivided into the current prairie provinces and territories. So hence it's not even clear if AB per se can just "go" and take everything with them -- chiefly because they had not "contributed" the geographical area in the first place!
Lots of lawyers could make a ton of money on this -- it will take decades to sort out!
But as the UK discovered with Brexit -- NONE of the "simple assertions" that the likes of Lafarge and Johnson (et al) happened, over a decade or so of complete grief/stalled economy, etc. and -- most importantly -- no pathway to undo the damage (for example, if UK were to apply to rejoin the EU (and frankly right now, Canada would have a better shake at getting fast-tracked for membership), they would lose the Pound as their currency and would have to adopt the euro). I could see the same for AB.
Oh, I forgot a big comment about the passport bit: Canada taxes citizens on WORLDWIDE income, with the understanding that the taxpayer would get a foreign tax credit for "local tax paid" outside of Canada. But for that last part to happen, The Republic of AB would have to negotiate a reciprocal tax treaty with Canada -- without that, then double-taxation will happen (if they have grievance right now about "paying in to rest of Canada", it will hurt doubly so in this case. The obvious answer is to forgo the Canadian Passport (problem goes away) -- but so does one of the separatist talking points, that is important for mollifying much of the AB electorate.
And it'll be no trouble at all running a pipeline through a foreign country to endanger its pristine, priceless widerness with bitumen spill that will last at least a few generations. So more pipekines south to Texas, the Yanks only.too happy to accept even more.oil, at significant discount. It's pretty obvious the Leavers are intent on joining the MAGA America as a useful territory with promises of statehood - until the oil runs out - as a first piece in the absorption of Canada. I guess you xould calk it foreign interference.
That’s the uncomfortable question, Ron... separation into what exactly?
True independence... or dependency wearing a different hat?
Smaller players rarely dictate terms to bigger neighbours, especially when pipelines, trade, and geography hold the cards.
Ron, I actually wrote something along your lines and then deleted it, thinking it might be too over-the-top beyond what Fred's posting was going. But I'm very glad you had the courage to write it!
I don't want to say the separatist/legitimate grievance folks are being manipulated here -- but I honestly think they are! Instead of getting resolution to their concerns, they will find themselves dragged into the cesspool of what's happening State-side, with none of the things that AB takes for granted in the Canadian system (maybe they are okay with the trade-offs?? Get used to no universal health care and lots of guns in your schools . . . .)
Anyway to the bigger point: YES, definitely foreign interference -- the separatist leadership actually bragged about the secret meeting(s) in DC in the SCIF room ("Sensitive Compartmentalized Information Facility" - the most top secret of secret meetings. No cellphones or computers allowed in, etc.) and the promise of US$500Billion to help finance an independent AB (or State 51, or whatever).
And Fred also hit the nail on the head in his reply to you -- at best, AB becomes "Texas North" but not really as much of an equal partner.
And again, I'm not sure they will be able to -- all AB land is treaty land relating to federal agreements. This won't be a clean divorce. At best, maybe they get a bottom corner of the province . . . .
Great post Fred! Seems like DS wants to have her cake & eat it here! Go away bwitch! Sureeee we'll give a separatist bunch Canada's pensions, passports, does she want free toilet paper too? Then there's the Native factor... once separated, can't Indigenous peoples say "get off our land, we shared with Canadians, not a bunch of bigots!!!" Housing for some of our Native population will be readily available, for FREE! See ya Danielle, don't let the door kick you in the ayasssssssssss on the way out! That's how I see it today haha
Well said, as always. I certainly hope that Alberta stays and is willing to go through the exercise of working WITH Ottawa to tackle the issues that Albertans want to have tackled in order to convince them that staying is better than leaving.
Heh Heh, yes, like Brexit, if Alberta actually does pass a referendum to secede (would be the second one, I guess, if the first one passes), we would be in for some very thorny/interesting times!
Passports: Ironically the way things stand at the moment, they probably could claim a right to retain it. Presently, Canada has to consider anyone with familial ties going back generations. And I would think everyone in AB would be able to make such a claim easier than many American applicants, at the moment.
But while that would make them dual-citizens, that doesn't automatically mean dual-benefits. For example, I don't believe that they could just cross the border into SK, BC, or NT/NU and get full health benefits (I believe that "Americans" who now can get a Cdn passport are required to pay something into the system for health care (or provide their own insurance/funding). I could be wrong on this, though).
And the pension stuff (CPP) will get thorny. At a broad stroke, I suspect that actuarily, CPPIB would pay out a "present value of contributions of AB workers" at a specific date -- and by pay out, I mean transfer it to an ABPP or whatever. And then that's it -- no future CPP benefit.
But this is all getting into the weeds - it's not a simple "okay we've left - now we want to still be part of confederation somehow, sort-of like UK with EU" (where somethings they have worked out some special arrangements that are much like they never left -- but that's certainly not the case with many things (including immigration, investment, currency, etc.).
And the big one is the whole Indigenous Treaty issue -- as that was arrangements with Dominion of Canada for the vast Rupert's Land area - that was then later subdivided into the current prairie provinces and territories. So hence it's not even clear if AB per se can just "go" and take everything with them -- chiefly because they had not "contributed" the geographical area in the first place!
Lots of lawyers could make a ton of money on this -- it will take decades to sort out!
But as the UK discovered with Brexit -- NONE of the "simple assertions" that the likes of Lafarge and Johnson (et al) happened, over a decade or so of complete grief/stalled economy, etc. and -- most importantly -- no pathway to undo the damage (for example, if UK were to apply to rejoin the EU (and frankly right now, Canada would have a better shake at getting fast-tracked for membership), they would lose the Pound as their currency and would have to adopt the euro). I could see the same for AB.
Oh, I forgot a big comment about the passport bit: Canada taxes citizens on WORLDWIDE income, with the understanding that the taxpayer would get a foreign tax credit for "local tax paid" outside of Canada. But for that last part to happen, The Republic of AB would have to negotiate a reciprocal tax treaty with Canada -- without that, then double-taxation will happen (if they have grievance right now about "paying in to rest of Canada", it will hurt doubly so in this case. The obvious answer is to forgo the Canadian Passport (problem goes away) -- but so does one of the separatist talking points, that is important for mollifying much of the AB electorate.